Jack and the Beanstalk

Current topics

Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Marko » 11:57 am

According to Wiki, Iacchus is a torch-bearer and synonymous with Dionysus, the god of wine, wilderness and vegetation

In Greek mythology, Iacchus (also Iacchos, Iakchos) (Greek: Ἴακχος) is an epithet of Dionysus,[1] particularly associated with the Mysteries at Eleusis, where he was considered to be the son of Zeus and Demeter.[2] Iacchus was the torch bearer of the procession from Eleusis, sometimes regarded as the herald of the 'divine child' of the Goddess, born in the underworld, and sometimes as the child itself. Iacchus was called "the light-bringing star of our nocturnal rite",[3] giving him possible associations with Sirius and Sothis

Jack features prominently in folklore in various guises, sometimes as a giant-killer, often a seeming simpleton, who succeeds through guile and even gambling, always 'Jack the lad'. It could be he is a homegrown version of Hermes, the herald or messenger. The jury is still out on the question of when and where the Greeks got their Iacchus.
Marko
 
Posts: 32
Joined: 2:19 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Marko » 12:14 pm

According to at least one academic there is a connection between the story of Gilgamesh and the biblical account of Jacob:

"It was popular for some time to seek apparent Near Eastern parallels to biblical narratives. The methodology employed was at times problematic, and conclusions were often overstated, as similarities between texts explicable in any number of ways were attributed to direct relationship.
For some biblical texts, of course,there is stronger evidence for Near Eastern influence. I propose that this is the case in regard to one text for which a Near Eastern counterpart has not previously been suggested: the story of Jacob’s wrestling match in Gen 32:23–33 (Eng. 32:22–32).There is reason to believe that the Israelite author knew some form of Gilgamesh,and particularly the scene of the wrestling match between Gilgamesh and Enkidu.
The case presented here is not simply one of a shared motif or logical grouping of elements, but one of an unexpected and striking series of correspondences
[...]
"The final outcome of the match is shared by the two texts as well. In each case the victor is blessed by his attacker. It should be noted immediately that this is not a usual context for a blessing. As Westermann has observed, this is in fact the only place in the Tanakh in which a blessing is acquired through a struggle.
Further-more, the two blessings are similar in both form and content. Jacob’s attacker declares: “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with human beings, and have prevailed” (Gen 32:28). This can be divided into two parts. First, the divine opponent makes a declaration regarding the identity and legacy of Jacob in relation to God; second, he affirms that Jacob has prevailed over all others. Enkidu’s blessing of victorious Gilgamesh follows the same pattern: “As one unique your mother bore you, the wild cow of the sheep-folds, Ninsunna! Your head is extolled above men; kingship of the people Enlil has decreed for you” (P 234–39). Again, the first statement is in regard to the identity and legacy of Gilgamesh in relation to his mother, the goddess; the second statement affirms that Gilgamesh prevails over all others. In both cases, the force of the blessing is clear: the hero will continue to prevail as the divinely appointed father or leader of his people."


Jacob famously dreamt of a ladder in which he saw angels (= messengers/heralds) ascending and descending. No mention of a beanstalk but in the Orphic mysteries beans were apparently 'forbidden fruit', not to be eaten because they represented souls. Hermes was celebrated as the god who escorted souls into the underworld.

In Ancient Greece he was also the patron of gymnasia, associated with the sports of wrestling and boxing and of athletics generally. Hermes, like the Celtic Lugh, is a multi-skilled god, a Jack of all trades you might say.
Marko
 
Posts: 32
Joined: 2:19 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Marko » 9:08 am

There is a different view of this mother of all beanstalks, bean the Gaelic for woman is related to/ stems from gwen or queen.

Beans may be synonymous with fertility and life (cf. beans as pulses) but seem here to be a version of the Tree of Life, the Pillar of Wisdom, etc. etc. The twining (twinning?) stalks are reminiscent of Hermes' caduceus.
Marko
 
Posts: 32
Joined: 2:19 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Marko » 9:48 am

There is something Oedipal about this story. The bean which is central to the narrative is larger, more swollen, than most seeds.

Oedipus means 'swollen foot' and according to the Greek myth after the Oracle of Apollo prophesied he would kill his father and marry his mother, his parents bound his ankles together with a pin and abandoned him. One version says he was left on a mountain to die, another that he was placed inside a chest and tossed into the sea or a river, but the ankle binding detail remains intact which may indicate the baby was circumcised.

When it is revealed that he has married his mother, Oedipus blinds himself with a pin (from his mother's dress) and after years of wandering ends up in a grove of trees called Colonus just outside Athens. There are many similarities with other mythical heroes in search of wisdom, Odin in particular whose name is not dissimilar. Odin or Woden is of course Hermes.
Marko
 
Posts: 32
Joined: 2:19 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby hvered » 10:16 am

The giant in Jack and the Beanstalk mentions grinding bones to make bread. Bonemeal is a fertiliser and is also given to animals as a supplement so there seems to be a reference to attending to or maintaining the land.

The ruler of the land, and the giant is literally at the top of the tree, has a duty of care. Jack's story has a completely unsentimental feel, unlike the romances of chivalry and the Fisher King which convey a real sense of loss and mourning.
hvered
 
Posts: 847
Joined: 10:22 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Marko » 10:25 am

Bones are the equivalent of the breath of life. The First Mother, Eve, is made from the rib of the earth father (Adam = earth). Isis is the wife of Osiris, os = bone.

The Virgin Mary is the mother figure in Christianity, her son's birth is announced by the Angel Gabriel who plays a similar role in the birth of John the Baptist.
Marko
 
Posts: 32
Joined: 2:19 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Boreades » 12:54 pm

hvered wrote:The giant in Jack and the Beanstalk mentions grinding bones to make bread. Bonemeal is a fertiliser and is also given to animals as a supplement so there seems to be a reference to attending to or maintaining the land.

The ruler of the land, and the giant is literally at the top of the tree, has a duty of care. Jack's story has a completely unsentimental feel, unlike the romances of chivalry and the Fisher King which convey a real sense of loss and mourning.


The Cornish tales of Jack the Giant Killer are pretty grim as well.
http://www.gandolf.com/cornwall/giants/ ... er_1.shtml
Boreades
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: 2:35 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Jacqui » 5:05 pm

Presumably there are so many Cornish giants because Cornwall has such a collection of megaliths, large stones requiring large people to move them.

According to Geoffrey of Monmouth, Britain was fought over by Trojans led by Brutus who won by throwing Gogmagog, the leader of the giants, off the cliffs at Plymouth Hoe in Devon. It's been suggested that the real Trojans were Britons and the war was over Cornish tin!
Jacqui
 
Posts: 11
Joined: 3:27 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby hvered » 10:57 am

Marko wrote: Beans may be synonymous with fertility and life (cf. beans as pulses) but seem here to be a version of the Tree of Life, the Pillar of Wisdom, etc. etc. The twining (twinning?) stalks are reminiscent of Hermes' caduceus.

The beanstalk could be also be a vine, the image of the vine is used in the New Testament to prove Jesus is related to the royal tree of David. Vines are more often pagan symbols, associated with Dionysus and our very own Green Men.
hvered
 
Posts: 847
Joined: 10:22 pm

Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Boreades » 4:39 pm

Marko wrote:There is a different view of this mother of all beanstalks, bean the Gaelic for woman is related to/ stems from gwen or queen.

Beans may be synonymous with fertility and life (cf. beans as pulses) but seem here to be a version of the Tree of Life, the Pillar of Wisdom, etc. etc. The twining (twinning?) stalks are reminiscent of Hermes' caduceus.


Yes
http://www.crystalinks.com/caduceus.html

It looks like JATB is another Hermetic fairy story/ children's tale that hides its allegorical message in plain sight.
Boreades
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: 2:35 pm

Next

Return to Index

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest