Trade Secrets

Current topics

Re: Trade Secrets

Postby TisILeclerc » 8:53 am

Sound travels best over water, worst in woods


One of the reasons I posted the article from the beeb. The relevant bit regarding woods is below where whistles are used for communication in the Amazon wich is pretty dense.

Birds tend to be most vocal in the early morning. During the day they are busy hiding or hunting. Unless they issue a warning cry which is nothing like a bird song. And all birds whatever the species take flight or hide and shut up.


But the sounds can also penetrate dense forests such as the Amazon, where hunters whistle to locate each other through the dense foliage. “The whistles are good for fighting against reverberation,” says Meyer.


http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2017052 ... n-whistles

Is your idea that quackers and grunters were domesticated by man, or woman, and through evolution stopped singing?

As for the importance of swans and geese I think the answer lies above in the constellation Cygnus. I wrote previously that Callanish is shaped like a cross or a bird like a swan.

In Plato's Timaeus, Critias tells the story of Atlantis as recounted to Solon by an Egyptian priest, who prefaced the story by saying:

"There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story that even you [Greeks] have preserved, that once upon a time, Phaethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaethon

The Greeks also associated this constellation with the tragic story of Phaethon, the son of Helios the sun god, who demanded to ride his father's sun chariot for a day. Phaethon, however, was unable to control the reins, forcing Zeus to destroy the chariot (and Phaethon) with a thunderbolt, causing it to plummet to the earth into the river Eridanus. According to the myth, Phaethon's brother, Cycnus, grieved bitterly and spent many days diving into the river to collect Phaethon's bones to give him a proper burial. The gods were so touched by Cycnus's devotion to his brother that they turned him into a swan and placed him among the stars.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cygnus_(constellation)

Image

By IAU and Sky & Telescope magazine (Roger Sinnott & Rick Fienberg) - [1], CC BY 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.p ... d=15406373
TisILeclerc
 
Posts: 784
Joined: 11:40 am

Re: Trade Secrets

Postby hvered » 10:31 pm

Might singing and whistling be connected to flocking? Solitary animals presumably have little reason to 'project' their voices except when necessary such as seeking a mate or defending territory.

It's difficult to know if waterfowl would live in large or small groups 'in a state of nature'. Certainly swan colonies aren't a natural phenomenon so perhaps flocks of geese are arose from domestication.
hvered
 
Posts: 846
Joined: 10:22 pm

Re: Trade Secrets

Postby hvered » 6:54 am

Is your idea that quackers and grunters were domesticated by man, or woman, and through evolution stopped singing?

It would appear so, either accidentally or on purpose. When young birds are taken from their nests, there's no-one to teach them the 'family' song. Presumably they'd continue to sing, instinctively as it were, but maybe over time this trait does get lost?

It's noticeable domesticated fowl don't sing. They aren't mute of course, hens cluck and cockerels are notoriously noisy. Loud crowing is a desirable trait for a bird that guards a flock so it could be a natural trait that's retained because of not despite domestication.

Game birds generally inhabit open spaces such as moors and fields rather than woods, but don't sing. Peacocks which have a piercing shriek tradionally guarded a palace from the rooftop. Occasionally they ended up at banquets not unlike swans in Britain though their feathers are more beautiful.
hvered
 
Posts: 846
Joined: 10:22 pm

Re: Trade Secrets

Postby TisILeclerc » 8:31 am

Problem is lots of geese are migratory. They fly in from Russia or Canada. I'm sure if they wanted to sing they would with nobody to stop them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAo3X_BZLro


Peewits don't have much of a 'song' either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgOXeMj4ryM
TisILeclerc
 
Posts: 784
Joined: 11:40 am

Re: Trade Secrets

Postby hvered » 9:48 am

Mick Harper wrote: There may however be a correlation with size. Do any large birds sing? Or is it they can 'boom' because of the size of their chest cavity? Waterfowl, remember, have to be big.

I think Mick's correct. The question 'Why don't large birds sing?' isn't addressed presumably because no-one knows. Ornithologists have however analysed bird song and conclude that generally the larger the bird, the lower the song. They also say that sometimes birds will imitate the sounds of larger birds, whether successfully or not isn't stated.

The researchers add that low sounds have long wavelengths so presumably travel further.
hvered
 
Posts: 846
Joined: 10:22 pm

Re: Trade Secrets

Postby hvered » 7:17 am

Anglo-Saxonists say swan comes from Anglo-Saxon. It doesn't.

German, Dutch, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish origins are all in the frame but etymologists to a man come up with the less than plausible meaning of 'singing bird'. Mind, they do add 'probably'. It may be that cygnus is similar enough to 'sing' to have led to a conflation, but no-one suggests this connection.
hvered
 
Posts: 846
Joined: 10:22 pm

Re: Trade Secrets

Postby Mick Harper » 11:10 am

Problem is lots of geese are migratory. They fly in from Russia or Canada. I'm sure if they wanted to sing they would with nobody to stop them.

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear. There is no suggestion that birds sing or do not sing because of anything Man might have done. The question before us is whether the noises made by birds that have a strong association with Man might be clues as to what their relationship with Man might have been.

So, for instance, and since you mention it, can the noises of geese that habitually migrate (and therefore can provisionally be presumed to be entirely wild and natural) be differentiated from geese (and I think swans would be considered geese) who do not migrate?
Mick Harper
 
Posts: 857
Joined: 10:28 am

Re: Trade Secrets

Postby Boreades » 2:02 pm

An opportunity has arisen for us to join the Heritage Tin Smelting elite.

Tamar Union Smelting Works, Weir Quay

A rare opportunity to acquire an historic former Tin Smelting Works in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty which has been carefully renovated and restored by our vendors. Located close to the River Tamar, The Works are Grade II Listed and comprise of a number of former outbuildings and warehouses involved with the smelting process and, in total, approach 10,000 sq ft. In recent times part of The Works have been converted into a 2 double bedroom reverse level house (The Count House) plus a separate potential 3 bedroom reverse level house (The Jam Factory), the latter still requiring completion. The remaining buildings have endless possibilities subject to the relevant planning permissions and listed building consents. The site occupies a private position amounting to approximately 0.605 acres with various courtyards, garden areas and ample off-road parking. Furthermore there is an attractive deciduous wood of approximately 1.8 acres which overlooks the whole site. An opportunity not to be missed to become a custodian of property within a World Heritage Site, Site of Special Scientific Interest and an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty.


https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-fo ... 79437.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... uErvDjXFUE

Important note: we don't have to actually get dirty and do real work. As it's in a World Heritage Site, Site of Special Scientific Interest and an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, the most demanding work will be form-filling and applying for heritage grants for a TME Tin Smelting Theme Park.

But you can dress up in period costume if you like.
Like at Morwellham Quay, just round a few bends of the Tamar.
https://www.morwellham-quay.co.uk/
Boreades
 
Posts: 1992
Joined: 2:35 pm

Previous

Return to Index

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest